91ÁÔÆæ

And thank you everyone for joining us today. We got a lot of students on the zoom call today to speak with all of our fantastic presenters. And my name is Laurie and I'm with career services. And before I even really get started, I'm actually going to kick it off with a couple of poll so that we can get to know our students a little bit better and think about and learn a little bit more about you on what you're hoping to learn today. So I do have a poll. The first one is I would like to learn and you can choose multiple selections. A little bit more about the careers of our presenters today. Some of the hurdles they overcame, some tips for college and career success. So I'll leave this open for just a few seconds so that you can take the time to let us know a little bit more about what it is that you're hoping to learn today. We do have three fantastic speakers with really amazing accomplishments. So when I go into their bio is it'll be a very abbreviated version because they do have so many wonderful accomplishments there. And it looks like right at the moment the and I'll share the results in just a moment. But we've got everyone doing the pole and most people are looking to know more about some of the hurdles you've experienced and how you've overcome them. So we still have a few more people voting, so give them just a few more seconds. And then I'll share the results of the poll. And we just have two quick polls right here at the beginning, just so we can know a little bit more about the folks who are joining us today. So I will go ahead and end the poll at the moment.

And it looks like most people have already voted in. So let me share those results. So as you can see, overwhelmingly most people really want to know about some of the hurdles and how you overcome the, overcame them. And then just some general tips for college and career success and a little bit more about your career as well. And so then let me go to the second pole. Here we go. And there we go. So the second poll that we're going to start off with, again, just to know a little bit more about our students. For the students, what are some of the barriers to achieving your goals that concern you the most? And again, you can choose multiple selections here. So what are some of those barriers? Is it finishing your degree, gaining the right kind of experience, getting into graduate school, making this professional connections, finding a job in your field, not getting an opportunity to do ethnicity or gender, or any kind of hidden barriers, things that you just don't know that are out there that seem to really be kind of always be that wall that's kind of blocking you from getting to where you want to go. I so I'll keep this pull up for a few more seconds. Thank you for all of you who are voting on the pole and letting us know a little bit more about you. It looks like as of right now, most people are concerned with making professional connections in their field.

And that is always a challenge, especially when you're breaking into a new field. Not sure who you can network with and making sure that you find the right kind of connections that help achieve those kind of goals there. So I will leave this open for just about three more seconds. So anyone else that wants to vote, you're more than welcome to you. Okay, I will go ahead and in the polling, since it looks like most of you who have wanted to vote have voted. So let me share those results. So overwhelmingly making those professional connections. So I'm sure our speakers can probably touch on that today as well. And then of course, gaining experience and finding a job particularly in their field. So that's always a challenge as well. So I will stop sharing those results and now I'll get into introducing our fantastic speakers today, which thank you for all three of you for joining us.

I know you all have very busy schedules and thanks for joining career services and 91ÁÔÆæ, just so that we can get to know a little bit more about you and help our students kind of figure out how to get into their field. So the first one I'm going to introduce is Judge lately. She is the Assistant Chief immigration judge with United States Department of Justice, the Executive Office for Immigration Review. A judge lamp Lee serves as the Chief Judge of two federal immigration courts in the state of Louisiana. She is responsible for providing overall leadership for the administration of the courts and the judges, law clerks and staff members within those courts. Prior to her appointment as a judge, Judge Lee employee served as the executive director the Georgia Commission on equal opportunity, the state of Georgia Civil Rights Agency. A native of St. Petersburg, Florida, which I'm from Florida as well. So fantastic. Judge lamprey graduated magna too loud a from the University of Florida with a Bachelor of Science degree in Public Relations and earned her Juris Doctor degree from the University of Florida College of Law. She has held numerous leadership roles in the legal community, including imparting significant service within the Georgia Association of Black women attorneys. Enter leadership extends across Georgia and numerous statewide organizations. So Judge lamp, we thank you for joining us today. Pleasure to be here. And next step, we have BJ Pat. I use the United States Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia. He was sworn in in 2017 as the 25th presidentially appointed US Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia. Previously, BJ was in private practice handling complex civil litigation and defending clients and white color investigations and prosecutions. From January 2011 to 2017, BJ served in the Georgia General Assembly as a state representative from the 108th district. He served three terms as a state representative and voluntarily retired in January 2017. One recognition from numerous Organization and has been recognized by James magazine and it's most influential legislators list.

And he has been honored with numerous awards throughout his legal and public service career. He earned his juris doctorate summa cum loud a and order of the cloth from the University of Illinois College of Law, where he was a hard-nosed scholar. And he's a graduate of steps in university and the land Florida, which I knew exactly where that is because I'm from Dell tone, a Florida, which I'm sure a lot of people asked if you were from Daytona. They always ask me that where he was a Florida academic scholar, a member of the omicron Delta Kappa, and was on the intro fraternity council. So thank you BJ for joining us today. Thank you for having me. And last but certainly not least, Jennifer McCall graduated with her undergraduate degree from North Georgia College, which is now of course, University of North Georgia. And later graduated from CSU College of Law, where she gave the commencement speech after serving as the Student Bar Association president.

She worked at three forums before starting your own mid-2016. And she has received numerous awards as an attorney, including Super Lawyers rising star, which is only awarded to 2.5% of attorneys in Georgia. She's a member of leadership Hall County, and she currently serves on several non-profit boards, such as the honors advisory council, women of u and g. Women source, the Human Rights Committee through Star choices, Family Promise, Hall County family connections network in the Junior League. And she has three daughters, which the oldest of whom attends un G's, of course I had to put that in there because it's a family thing. So thank you, Jennifer, for joining us today. Thank you for having me. Fantastic. And Jennifer herring, are you on the call this morning? Yes. There you are. Here. And here. So I will turn it over to Jennifer hearing and you can do a brief introduction of who you are and then you are welcome to facilitate all of our fantastic speakers today. Excellent. Well, first off, let me remind everyone who is own the, the call with us today than to utilize your chat button.

We'll be monitoring that chat feature throughout the session and trying to get to those questions as quickly as we possibly can. My name is Jennifer herring. I am the Special Assistant to Dr. Richard Oates, who is the vice president of the Gainesville campus. And I work to support not only our Gainesville campus, but also our other regional campuses in Blue Ridge coming and a Kony. I'm super excited today about this event only because the participants, the presenters, joy, BJ, and Jennifer, are all friends of mine. And certainly some of my most favorite people and heroes and do such tremendous work and I'm so thankful that you guys took time out of your day to share with our students because I think it's going to be extremely impactful. So we'll go ahead and get started with our first question. And from a process standpoint to make sure that with the presenters will just column, I'll call him one of you guys to answer the question. And and we'll proceed that way. So try to direct a little bit of the traffic today with the questions. First question, we'll start with BJ. What advice do you have for students looking to gain experience in either the legal field or in public service. Well, thank you, Jennifer. I'm actually coming zooming from your Gainesville.

Campus, I'm glad to be here. Very exciting things going on in Gainesville and also at 91ÁÔÆæA in general. I want to tie the answer back to the poll results. It looks like a lot of folks wanted to kinda try to figure out how to make connections the professional world or make any connections at all. You don't want a big advice that I can give you is you'd be surprise if you reach out to folks how willing they are to help you. And that's something that I kinda lived through in my career. I'm a first generation American. I immigrated when I was ten. My parents don't have college degrees. And I was the first one to graduate college my family. And so we don't we didn't know a single lawyer anywhere. Just kind of given where we were socially and economically. And but when I went to college, I started to ask questions and ask professors about perhaps pursuing a career in law or things like that. And what happened was one of the professors suggested I try to reach out to one of the judges, local judges, and see if you could do an internship there. Even if it means like, you know, keeping the library updated, but give me opportunity to see, to perceive process, procedure. And so I wrote a letter, wanted to do an internship. And the judge actually accept that made this mistake. Florida when I was in college. And since then, you know, folks who see your work ethic and things like that because Fred, you can always ask them like here's what I want to do. You have any suggestions for me? And sometimes you have to make CO contacts. You're very interested in.

You do some research and you want to have maybe an entree into that person and we have to get over the fact that all of us don't like rejection. But, but the fact of the matter is there will be somebody who's willing to help you take a chance on you. And when you get that appertaining, work really hard and work on a good building a good reputation of someone. It could be dependable, competent, and trustworthy. And you constantly ask folks for advice on what to do. And a lot of folks, when I go to a networking event and I think the legal profession, I think it's true for any professional profession when you go there and it's natural tendency for us to kind of gravitate towards those people that we know. And so you go to a networking event and you end up talking to the same people again and again. When you should be doing is talking to people that, you know, now, you know that comment about working the room. That's actually true. You have to get over that fear and go talk to people and meet people and learn about them. Don't talk about yourself so much, but ask them about them. And you'll find out that there are very nice folks and it got good contacts. And once you build that rapport and the relationship, you could ask from an Introduction to people that you all ought to me, that might be mutual friends. And with, with tools like LinkedIn these days and social media.

Lot of things that you could do, like research wise in terms of how to get an introduction or how to be introduced in that field. So I mean, those are some of the highlight your high level tips I can give you. And always look for someone who wanted to mentor you or give you some advice from time to time. And that was critical for me and kind of where I how I came to be where I am today. And if I could tell myself if I personally go back in time, we're told my, you know, 181920 year old self, Mac and call us to do something. This will be exactly out. I'll be telling myself to do Anki BJ. Great advice. And that whole thought, working the room and the networking that apple fell to any, any industry, any PR fashion. So that's, that's very transferable.

Once you develop those skills. Miss joy, lively forward sin. Do you have anything else in regards that you'd like to tag on to BJ and regards to advice that you have for students. Thank you, Jennifer. I really do. I love I want to pick up on something that he was Attorney pack said, United States Attorney Pat said to us or to the students, which was sometimes you have to make a cold call. And back when he and I were young lawyers was literally picking up the phone. But now you can email folks, rich folks in different ways via social media. Things do I need to if you choose to go that route? But I think that's really important. I mean, I I kind of recall even my third year of law school, I did just that I literally make cold calls. I was I'm in law school at University of Florida, so down in Gainesville, Florida Gators. Right. But I knew I wanted to start my career as a lawyer in Atlanta, Georgia, had family here. I've done some clerkships and internships here at Yale Law School. So literally my third law school, what I did is I made cold calls and literally call different lawyers and I met through the summers. I'd been in Atlanta instead of what I've referred to as informal interviews with them.

And I'll get my little car and drive from Gainesville to Atlanta, I guess six or seven hour drive on a Thursday and I will spend Friday afternoon, Friday morning and afternoon going and meeting with these perfect strangely, but they were lawyers and movers and shakers in the Atlanta Legal Community, and I'd go and meet with them at hand my resume and I'm plateau pressure then because I frankly wasn't even asking for a job at that point. I was in law school, passed a bar, hadn't even gotten fully through law school. But I expressed to them that I was going to sit for bar exam, the Georgia Bar exam, I was in deep wanted to pass and become a lawyer and that I'd really want to rely on them as a professional conduct contact excuse me, or potentially even one that I would request to get an interview with in the future. So I love what I do is attorney said to us. But the cold calls that are so important. I mean, and like he said, if you pick up the phone and reach out to someone, be email or or meet them at a, at a reception and things of that nature. You'll be surprised how often people are very willing to help and kind of reach out and say, sure we can have that 15 minute coffee, that 20-minute cup of coffee or sure. Feel free to come by my office. And is it would be very important. Thank you. Joy. Jennifer, if you can answer kind of the same question, but I'm going to put a little bit of a spin on it because you are a graduate of North Georgia College, the University of North Georgia, in being an attorney in more of a rural community, a rule environment.

What are some things that would, or seventh, what's some advice that you would have for our students that are in more rural parts of the state, that it may not be cohesive for them to travel to a more metro area to make those connections. What's some advice that you might have for them? Sure. So when I started law school, I went to the Career Services Office and also I contacted the director of alumni relations and I got a list of attorneys who graduated from my law school who were practicing and Hall County. And I emailed all of them and said, can I take you to coffee or lunch?

Can I pick your brain? And I got a lot more news than yes's, but the yes is really panned out. I was able to get a job in the midst of a recession. I had a job lined up before most of my law school classmates because I put myself out there. And Mike, the other two have said it is, it is really important to, to put yourself out there to try to meet as many people as you can. Another thing, when you are in law school, they host a lot of receptions at the beginning and they invite lawyers and the lawyers will give you their hearts. And I reached out to everyone. You gave me a card and said, Can we follow up with them lunch. Several of the attorneys that, you know, I've been going to these receptions for years and no one's ever asked me. Don't be afraid to ask people. And unlike the other two, have said, people are really wanting to help people. There are a lot of people out there who are happy to mentor, who remember what it felt like to go through. And in some ways that was easier for me because I knew my location. I want it to be an hall. And the attorneys, I didn't get a job from.

They were farming clients all the time because they remember meeting me early on and I stayed in touch with them. Excellent good advice. Thank you so much. And especially I know our Career Services folks that are that are on the call with us today are loving the fact that you talked about utilizing their career services resources while you were still enrolled in college? Keeping with the same pattern, Jennifer, and we'll start with you this time though. So as you talked a little bit about utilizing career services and alumni relations, what are some of the other support systems while you were in college that helped you? Develop your career path and just really finished college and persist on in your career. What are what are the resources that were in college that you used? Sure. Mr. Park, I I'm a first-generation American, a first-generation college student. Siena, my, I grew up with stories from my parents about how much they sacrificed. Hm, how they struggled in a country where they didn't speak the language to give me a better life. No pressure. Right. But they they have all these expectations of me. Sometimes it was hard to relate. They really didn't understand some of the struggles that I went through. And so it was really important in college, I had a wonderful mentor, one of my favorite professors, and I still keep in touch with her today. And all of the different colleges are set setup. They want you to succeed, that all of the different tutoring centers, you know, take advantage of those things in, and take advantage of the professors.

Want to mentor a human and to help you get through, especially if you don't have an UDL at home who can really understand exactly what you're going through. Great advice. Thank you. Julie, let's shift that same question to you, but but shifted up just a little bit. Why are some support systems that you identified and utilized early owning your career to help you to be successful and to get where you're at today. Are. So shifting from away from my support system in college and law school, rather my career, it would go back to mentors, right? Because I am not a first-generation college student. I come from from the sisters and brothers. Everyone went to college. I think I was number 78 to go to college. But frankly, by the time I got to college and my career, they were on with their lives. So in terms of my career, I really relied on mentors, what I did as a young more quickly once I started my first job as a lawyer in Atlanta and begin to learn my work and how to do my work and do well first, what about after about a year of doing that and I decided it was time for me to really get involved in the legal community. And I'll say here, the three of us, Jennifer, US, attorney pack, and myself, we're all lawyers and I'm also a judge that we keep talking about the law, but we want you all to understand what we're saying, these lessons that we're sharing their transferable to whatever clear do you want to be in, if you want to be a teacher or in another profession. So what we're talking about is transferable.

But for me in my career, after about a year of starting my first job as a boy, I was a prosecutor in Atlanta and it was very important because like, I guess attorney I didn't know didn't have lawyers about family that decided it was time for me to really engage in one of our local bar associations. For me, I decided to get involved in the Georgia Association of Black women attorneys, a Bar Association made for women who look like me, who have similar experiences. And in that were a lot of young lawyers who were clueless like me. But more importantly, there are a lot of very experienced seasoned lawyers. The first Supreme Court Justice, African-American woman, just as LEA would see issues, one of our founders. I got involved in that organization and begin to volunteer and be the community service and all that stuff. But also begin to quickly forge relationships with the women in those law firms who had come before me who'd already walk my path and say, look, I'm a young lawyer. I really need you to kinda helped me navigate my career.

And so that's been a that was extremely helpful in my career. Not only did those seasoned lawyers in the Georgia Association of Black woman attorney really nurture and support me, but they helped me navigate different minefields in my career. And even to this day, they've been helpful in getting me to where I am at this juncture. So I would say, if you can identify for me in your career early on a professional organization, what did the teacher organization or the, you know, the engineer organization, whatever your profession is, and get engaged, get involved in whatever they're passionate about. But also find the mentors within that organization or folks who can help here, it's important to advocate for you, and that's something that is really important when you start your career. Thank you so much, great advice. And so moving on. Let's move on to a US attorney pack. The same question. In regards to law school and into your early professional career, what are some resources as a first-generation American and a first-generation college student interested in law and in public service. What are some support systems that helped you early on?

You know, why don't you guys are attending college? So, you know, one of the things you could ask is a lot of the folks that are actually teaching in school, if you're interested in that field and you have a professor that teaches your topic that you're very interested in, he or she could provide some background info on how to get more involved. And just to echo off, judge, for instance, comment about professional organization. I've been involved with a lot of professionalization. Every single one of them has a program to help the younger generation come up. And so I think it's really helpful to just reach out and call the president, whoever you could do it online and say, hey, I'm a student, I'm really interested in, is there an event that I could attend? One and now our Betcha, there'll be somebody contacting you to help you go through that process. Some of the resources I used, just like It's forks and I got involved in the the Asian American Bar Association when it first came out to practice law here. And so, you know, I always had a large law firm here at the time, we had many Asian American lawyers, although it was a very, very large law firm. And so I felt a sense of friendship immediately with folks with my similar background that I could bounce ideas off of.

And at the time when I came to Atlanta, there weren't many Asian American lawyers and high-ranking positions, even in large law firms or in the government or things like that. And so I had to seek out a bison. And, you know, mentorships from folks that are not Asian-American. And fortunately, I was able to find some folks who are willing to do that and help me out and make some introductions. That's how I got into politics. Frankly, it was a lawyer in the law firm owls at a very senior lawyer has been very involved in politics and I told him one day that I was, I would love to kind of get more involved in politics, the political process.

And he said, Hey, we have a, a breakfast coming up, I'm going to come as my guest and I get that. And that kind of launched into additional networking and contacts. And by the time Alice kinda ready to throw my hat in the ring to run for office or a state rep position. It was amazing how many people are willing to help me to do that, give money or volunteer their time. And so take advantage of those relationships that you build throughout your career, starting with your college. Friends and professors and administrators, there could be a tremendous resource for you and also a good reference point and a good sounding board too, if anyone can be a helpful person to what you're trying to achieve because they have a perspective, particularly those who are more experienced and older than n0. Or they have a perspective about life and career choices that you may be able to learn from. And so there's a reason why you have two years less than to their advice and then make the best choice out of all the advice that you get. Excellent, thank you.

Well, we're starting to get some really great questions in the chat. So from CD Leonard. And this is for all three add judge lively forts and we'll start with you on this one. But what is the obstacle that you are most proud of overcoming? And how did you do it? At the Great question, obstacle? There have been many. I would say again, this profession that we're in, the law, it's a tough profession. Jennifer and argues tourney pack will tell you that. And I think when you go into a space as a minority, there can be certain people and those organization to assume certain things about you assume that you should be there, Student, You shouldn't be there, all of those things. So I had experiences like that. And for me, there was a time in my career we're going to work every day was hard because I realize often walk into that space, people didn't expect the best of joy, but they expected Other. And I'm a pretty tough person. I just bam. And I decided then and there really well before then that despite what people assumed about me, despite whether or not people's thought I was smart enough or not, or this, or enough or not. I knew that I was enough and develop a smart and it was hard working under that. There's very few people that I've met who can out work me.

And what I decided to do is just stay in and navigate through that space. And one by one, I earned the respect of the people who doubted whether I should be in that workspace. And I was in that workspace for a number of years. I did well, and I moved on. And so I think that would be the greatest obstacle for me. I'd say really my career. No, no. That has an African-American woman. One time a girl and I knew it wouldn't be a lord says I'm an African American young lawyer. I had to overcome people doubting Me and my capability and whether I was smart enough. And I navigated it. I prayed about it some days I cried, but I but I stood more than I did anything and I walked into court rooms and I represented my client at the time that the state of Georgia, United States of America. And I withstood it. And here I am now. I'm a judge with the Department of Justice. So that's my part of this. The proudest obstacle that I've overcome. Thank thank you guys.

People will doubt. You. People will wonder, did you get here because someone PDG really smart enough or you're good enough, you all will often Faisal's obstacles, particularly since you are first-generation college students and pupils should not, people should not doubt that many people will. And you gotta be tough. We gotta push the river, you gotta work hard. And I know Jennifer and our US attorney can speak to that as well. Absolutely. Thank you. Judge. Likely forcing Jennifer McCall will shift that same question to you. What what is the obstacle that you are most proud of overcoming? And how did you do it? And so I actually had my first daughter when I was 16. So I finished high school. I went to the college and law school with children until by the time I went to law school, I had three kids already. And that that was tough. But, you know, it's all about priorities.

If something really mean something to you, you can figure out a way to make it work. And I also wanted to comment on on what Judge line flavoured since that. When I go into court rooms, a lot of times people ask me if I am the interpreter of AI and the court reporter. Like I'm here with one briefcase. I'm not a core of what I don't I don't even have a machine with me, but people like to make assumptions, especially if you're a woman and especially if you are a minority. And what I learned early on is when I go into court and someone asked me those things are makes makes assumptions like that. I can let it rattled me. I can let it upset me or I can let it feel me to do even better. And so, you know, you to be successful. You know, we've talked about all these nodes from when you reach out to people and all these assumptions against you, you just have to develop a tough skin and be confident in yourself. You do deserve to be where you are and you just have to believe that. Thank you so much. What an inspiring, inspiring story.

Us attorney back, we'll shift that same question to you. What was the obstacle that you are most proud of overcoming? And how did you do that? Sure. Here's, here's a thing. There was a there was an experiment done in, I think Switzerland involving fleas. Those of you who have pets know that fleas jump really, really high, right? And what they did was they took some fleas and put them in a Cup and put this frame, rapport were top of the cup so that the fleas can jump, but they try to jump the top of the cup, right? And so the interesting thing is after awhile, they removed the plastic wrap. The fleas do not jump out of the cup, but only jump as high as whether the rat was an interesting though that even when, when they, you know, they made it the fleas and got the children of the flea, the second-generation, They were only jumping at the COP without any plastic out. And you say to yourself, why is that important in sociology, I think the important thing is, you're conditioned to believe that you have a limitation on how far I could go. And frankly, a lot of the limitation and the self-doubt limits your ability to achieve as far as you know.

And I feel like being Asian-American, first-generation parents were culturally programmed to work very hard to keep your head down and then you'll get picked up the business metric, right? And because of beer minority or be a background, you say to yourself, and you have people around you who say, well you can't do that. Well, you can't do that. And, you know, I remember when I was in high school, a elderly Korean person asked me what I was going to be, what I grew up. And I said, well, I would love to get prosecutor. And he said, Oh no, you can't do that. I mean, your Eurasian there's there's no way a jury with respect to how, how you like them apples now, right now, how prosecutor here and this strict and that kind of fueled me and it leads to why, how it was able to overcome it after a while. I kind of believe than that. Like, oh, I can't do that when I grew up poor, I don't have the connections to get to where I need to go. I didn't have the tutoring whatnot. They at 1. I said, you know what? Instead of saying why not make I sorry, I asked myself why why not me? Right? So I just started kind of flipping kind of the way I view things like I can't do that.

And so what I realized is as, as I got to a certain level of success and I'll look around folks who had different backgrounds, maybe a little bit easier road to get, get where they are. And, you know, at first you might be doubting yourself, like, how did I get here? You say that all the time and after a while you look around and go, how did they get here? It's kind of an interesting thing. So your mindset and the mindset that I had growing up, like I can't do that, lit really limited me even though I didn't I didn't realize it until I was a little bit older. And being able to overcome that, I use that phrase, fake it until you make it got lever that you could do this. And what you'll find out that you can do that modify, you'll probably do it better than people who were already there.

And so you gotta just like an in sports and 19, psych yourself into over-performing, right? Like in the Olympics. All the pressure you psych yourself. You have to adapt your career. You're smart enough, and you're good enough. And you know, frankly, you've gotten to where you are despite whatever your circumstances are and you're doing while you're here at this, this actually zoom panel to learn more about how to get ahead. That it puts you ahead more than other folks. We're not really thinking about these things. So for me, I think is really believing in myself working hard at it, just like Jennifer said and just like Judge forts and said. And then I just worked hard and continue network and looking for opportunities and giving myself. It's chances to get lucky. Let me repeat that. Bringing myself working hard to put myself in the best position to get lucky. And that's what life is. And that's what I, I think that's a combination of competence, hard work, and luck to achieve success, and I was fortunate enough to be lucky. Thank you so very much. A US attorney pack. So this next question, we're going to give you a starting back a little bit of a break. This next question is actually for Judge line plea for Senate and mismo call. So as a female and also appearance entering into the accounting industry. This particular persons, as I feel a conscious, I feel I've just a content urge to just prove myself all the time. How much of that is healthy?

And how much of that should should this person set aside? So Jennifer McCall, we'll start with you on that as a as a female and apparent entering into an industry? Apparent of three. Yeah. Up here it has three form, you know, can you talk about that, that constant feeling of having to prove yourself and how much of that should we as females internalize and hamlets thought? Sure, that's a great question and it's just Sadly our reality. So when I was in law school, I ran for President. And the woman that ran against me opened her speech with Jennifer McCall is great law students and a great mom. I've seen her with her children. But because she's a great mom, she does not have the time to dedicate to being your law school progressive. People will use it against you. There. I have friends who have been passed over for promotions. If it is a reality that we do sadly have to face and I think there are different, a couple different ways to overcome it. You work hard. You're work speaks for itself. And there are some organizations that will recognize that and there are some that won't. So, you know, for me, I I'm an attorney, I'm a solo practitioner. So for me my priority really was my family and I was willing to walk away from any job that didn't allow that to be my priority. But I know that's not everybody's choice. So but I think if you're in an organization that that can't recognize your hard work and has advised against you because you're a mother, if you have the ability, you know, leave or or do more to change that within the organization. I think that's, that's excellent advice. Jennifer. So write it as women. It's just kind of you talked about it's imposed on us and it is what it is. It's a woman you eat what she said. You have to develop tough skin.

All of us on this panel have to have tough skin for our different circumstances and backgrounds. So I think like she's like Jennifer said, your work speaks for yourself when you when you're in college in or your career, work hard. Just be relentless about working harder. Not only working hard, but doing the work well, whatever your work product is, commit that you're going to do it well, if it's something in writing, if it's a report, if it is, say an Excel spreadsheet, do it well and if you, and if you do that day after day continually, it'll become your practice. Any of us as lawyers can tell you, we don't follow brief with the court until it really well done right. We go through many phases that you just get to the, that you establish good, you get accustomed to developing or providing an excellent work product. So work hard. Make sure that you provide an excellent work product every time. Not that you're not human, not that you will make mistakes because you will.

But you'll get to the point where your hard work will speak for itself and you'll develop a reputation within the organization. To Jennifer's point, there's some organizations that will respect work and and appreciate your work and there's some that are not. When there are ones that are not. I think it's important that you fall back on what we talked about. Having those mentors and those other people in your professional space that you can rely on at the in the award date and get a drink with them or coffee, whatever I'm saying, you know, works tough right now and this is what's going on. And when you have a mentor who cares about you, they'll listen to that. And again, really try to help you navigate this phase. It may be, well, hey, maybe you need to do this differently in your workspace. Or maybe they'll say food, what's not working so well.

An organization a, I have a friend organization V, and I hear their hiring. I'd be happy to introduce you to that person. That's how this thing works. So you in your workspace, work hard, relentless, offer good work product relentlessly, It will speak for itself. If the people that organization still don't appreciate you look for opportunities to leave by leaning on those mentors that you had enlight. Both our US attorney and Jennifer said, mentors, good ones. They will want to help you, not just in college, but also in your career. And you might not have tin mentor that I don't have ten mentors, but I've always had one or two good ones. And so that would be my advice. This stuff is hard work and career tarred, but, but it's what we have to do with adults and it's fulfilling. It's fulfilling. Thank you so much. We're going to give you two legged. He's a break and we're going to shift the next question, a US attorney pack. So in regards to networking and working array, edit or any type of an event, what are some good questions to utilizes icebreakers? Now, there's some couple of tips I can give you. The first one you should really think about is just ask him what Wendy, what interested him to go into that field. Right? Says, since you're trying to enter that field, and people generally like to talk about themselves when they talk about themselves a lot. So they'll tell you that. So they'll talk a lot about that. You want to really listen. And some of the other kind of tips of the trade. I was a politician before, so I know all the tips about converse with people and get what you want.

You know, a lot of people if you're in the South, particularly in your cells and your meeting professional folks here. Lot of them tend to be college football fans, right? So if you are cause football fan or just know enough of it. And then if someone went to University of Florida, for example, Judge, for someone seeing referred and thereby knows Team table, if you know anything, read anything about ten TiVo, you could talk to her about ten TiVo years have aggregators Having a good season? You'd have to know anything about football other than to ask, are Is Florida football team going to do well this year? And everyone talking, they'll talk about it. So you just keep it going and other things like where do they go up if they grew up in an area and you travel the area, ask for ask about once or do you still have family there? And those type of open-ended questions, keep the conversation going after a while. They will probably talk to, talk about 90% of the time. You talk about 10% of the time and they'll think that your home, the moon. Oh, that was such a great person. And, you know, when I was campaigning, you know, you get really good at those type of small talk. But you build that rapport and relationship. That's when you asked for the football, would you need like, Oh, can I have your card? And then you make sure you grab their card, don't give out your card. You always grab their car because you control when you contact. You're never going to call it, but you give me your card. I'm not gonna call it. Trust me, again, my card if you call me. Right. So always grab their car.

Or if you want to ask, is that oh, you know, you mentioned something about your job is that you guys have any opportunities available for internships or things like that, then automatically you don't say, Oh yeah, give me a resume outward so our person, HR or whatever. And that's how you create opportunities to get love. And you can have her Can I piggyback what US 20 packs and about internships? I don't one of the things have been helpful to me. An internship can be paid, which is the best kind really well, do you want the money? But unpaid internships can be very valuable. In my first job as a lawyer was the result of an unpaid internship, was waiting for bar exam results and at three months to two, I just need to do something that I wanted to use a bill Eagle out when an intern for free in the prosecutor's office with City of Atlanta, and I told him one day I'm going to pass the bar exam and few month and then I'm going to want to interview with you. And of course, when I pass after I worked for him for free, after I passed the bar, I set up like an interview. Now he interviewed me, hired me. So when your attorney packs is internships, certainly paid internships are great, but I'll also be open to not paid internships because an internship gets you in that organization space where you can meet people and build a relationship and work hard and impress the people there. So when a paid opportunity comes up, they may be willing to vouch for you. Absolutely. Jennifer, we'll call we'll shift that. Do you have any anything else to add to that conversation about networking and working the RE-AIM and icebreaker questions, what's worked for you?

And what US attorney pack said about it. You should speak about 10% at a time and you should ask a lot of open-ended questions, it's true. And also, when someone introduces themselves and they say their name, you want to repeat their name to them throughout the conversation. All the studies show that if you say their name a lot, they end up liking you more and helps you to remember their name the next time you see them. And when you remember someone's name and a second event that really impresses people. Another thing. I, I'm also involved in a local bar association. That's a really fantastic thing to deal. I've practiced family law in Hall County. I don't advertise all my cases or by referral. And I've been able to build a successful practice a lot because a successful networking. And on top of that, the legal associations I'm And I'm also I also participated on what they've non-profit organizations, things that matter a lot to me. And so family, poverty really means I really want to address those issues. And so I work with, have a comments I work with. And the different organizations and people know when you're passionate about things. And that's another great way to meet people outside of your little community. And so I've been able to meet a lot of people through volunteer organizations as well. And it's a wonderful way to get back to the community. And an attorney said to me once, you know, a lot of these people that refer you to other people, they've never seen you in court, that they've seen Yale in the community and they see how invested you are in your community. And that impresses people as well. When, if you're a lawyer or any career, any professional career that you want to go into, your reputation. People are always looking at that. If you are in core, are out-of-court, wherever you are in the community. Thank you so much. We had actually a question specifically for Judge likely forts and we have someone on with us today this actually pursuing law in the immigration field and wants to know what is your both your favorite and your least favorite part of practicing immigration law? Great question.

So my least favorite part of practicing immigration law is that we have just frankly more cases than we can handle, just hundreds of thousands of cases then frankly, there's a backlog in our court for a number of reasons which I don't care to talk about here is a lot of cases that's my least favorite.

Because as you know, any professional you want to feel like whatever the work at the head of that, it's very, you can accomplish, you know, getting through it and and getting to the empty lists and immigration court issues, heart tickets, then it was lots of pending cases. But my favorite thing about flexing immigration law is when I was a DHS bumps at each attorney number of years ago. And I could agree with the judge after someone put on their case and I can say, judge, the Department of Homeland Security would support this person remaining in the United States. As a judge was very satisfying for me, is when I was a judge can allow someone consignment Final Order to allow someone to remain in the United States so that they can then take the path of becoming a United States citizen. Spirit setup time. Excellent. So in our last couple of minutes that we have here, and this will be a question for all of our panelists today. I will start with us tardy pack. But as you're back to your, your college days and your, your college experiences and certainly your undergraduate days. If you could go back and tell your 1819 20-year-old self. One critical thing that you have learned that you're like, Hey, you need to pay attention to this and do this. What would you go back and tell yourself as an undergraduate? But it's a very good question. You know, I would say I would tell my younger self to relax. Scorecard would relax because I think that especially these days, people coming out to it as young professionals out of college and grad school puts so much pressure on themselves.

But things have a way of kinda work it out, long as you stay optimistic and you work hard and you continue to network and seek advice. So if I if I knew that and I really receive advice when I was younger, I think I would have done better and school, frankly, stress so much about it. And you would have say, but many, many years, despite pulling my hair out, saying, I want this, I want this so badly. And not to just let life happen naturally. And you just work hard towards a certain goal and not so much trying to control everything we can't do, right? And so enjoy your time at college is a time when you expand your mind and interests. So take classes outside your comfort zone to learn a little bit more about it. And there's a great speech. Steve Jobs on a graduation about he was before became CEO of Apple. He studied like fonts and how that's very valuable to beating his business. You will never thought that. But I think just, you know, take a deep breath, relax. Things all work out long as you work hard and do the right. Thanks. Excellent, gentle, amply flirts. And same question to you. If he could go back and tell your 1819 20-year-old self one critical piece of advice that would help yourself as you navigate through college. What would that be? I would say be confident in who you are, know that you're now and know that you can accomplish any goal that you really are willing, are willing to work hard for a confident in who you are. Know that you're enough and know that you can really accomplish that goal and enjoy the ride while you're doing all that.

Exilic gender from a call. What I can tell yourself, my minus FE similarly tangentially, amply flights in UI. And then I grab poet and I had this idea that wealthy and successful people had some kind of special gift. In some kind of special luck that the rest of us didn't have. And I realize now, especially being an attorney and seeing people who've got become successful, they're really not special There. You are enough if you work hard and if you stick to your goals and if you're confident in yourself, you really can't get there. I struggled for a long time with imposter syndrome whenever I would do something well, I would always I very close to my brother. I will call my brother like wow, I can't believe I did XYZ and he said to me, You are the only person. He was surprised by your success. Everyone else knows that you are capable. So if I could go back and tell my young self something, I would say, you are enough. You are capable, you deserve all the good things that have worked for. And that's what I would tell all of the attendees today. You are enough.

You are worthy of everything you work hard for. So just keep working hard and you can be successful. Thank you so much. Well, I don't know about the rest of you all on this call with us today. But I am I am certainly inspired and feeling competent and feeling like we can go out and conquer the world. Because the words of US, attorney pack, judge lively, works and agenda from the call today. So I'm going to turn it back over to Lori now, she has a couple of additional surveys to round this out, but let me extend my very heartfelt personal thank you to our panelists today, or for your encouraging, empowering, and an honest words to all of us today.

Thank you so much, Jennifer, and I'll go ahead and launch the poll. Just real quick if our students can. We just have two very quick questions here at the end in a yes. Thank you very much. Judge Lee amply, US attorney pack, and Jennifer McCall for joining us today. Just lately, I know you've gotta run to another call in about ten seconds. But everyone, she's in New Orleans right now, so she's getting the brunt of this really bad storm, so please stay safe. Hope everything will be OK. We're gonna get hit tomorrow morning, so hopefully everyone stay safe and everyone's okay. So thank you so much for joining us. But yeah, we just wanted to get a quick poll here at the end about if you learn something now, if you gain any new insights. Because yes, they all have. I said, I mean, their, their, their, their bios are pages long. So when I said I gave an abbreviated version when I introduce them, it's extraordinarily abbreviated because they have so many wonderful accomplishments. And I mean, yes, just truly inspiring all the, all the amazing things that they've done. So thank you again for joining us today. So I'll go ahead and in this poll, Thank you so much everyone for being able to participate in that. And it looks like everyone gain something today.

So that's fantastic news. We always want to see that. And then just one quick little fast pole here at the end, just one more. So launching the poll. Here we go. So after this chat, how motivated are you to pursue your career goals? One, not very motivated. Five, very motivated. And my gosh, after listening to all three, I think I need to start coming up with some new goals and get motivated to come up with something new because this is fantastic. Everyone, thank you so much. It is, it is really inspiring hearing all the challenges. Because I know a lot of our students are facing a lot. Not only just because of the times right now, but just in general, it's always just a lot when you're in college, you're working, you've got families add on top of it, all the virus and having to learn online and all these things that are going on in the world just makes it kind of a stressful time. So thank you so much for taking the time today to be able to meet with everyone here. We had great participation today from our students. Thank you so much for asking questions that were fantastic questions. And it looks like everyone's pretty motivated to get working on all of their goals. So thank you so much everyone. And thank you again to our speakers. Really appreciate all of the time. And thank you to all of our students showing up today. I know it's kinda nasty weather, but you hopefully you're able to join from home so you didn't have to go driving in it. So thank you everyone for joining us today and I wish you all the best. Take good care.

Career Chats and Workshops